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Remember that quest that was relased during ARR that didnt hold your hand and you had to read/pay attention and figure out how to finish it/what to do next yourself and i give you a weird amount of gil for completing it? Well I got a quest in SB ner Yanaxia that saID "there would be no direction and you had to find clues to figure out what to do next" etc etc. I like quest like those sio Im wondering if anyone knows how many others there are out there like that?
That was was so easy, though, that they could have just put the directions in and hardly anybody'd even notice. That, and that didn't stop wikis from posting go-to guides anyways, so in the end, doing something like that was moot anyways because most players would simply look it up.
Fact is, it seems SE can't win one way or another -- if they add quests like these, people will complain about having to look it up to know what to do, but if SE adds the usual XIV quest, then people will whine about hand-holding.
So, what they could do, is make an *option* to get rid of the quest step markers that tell you where to go, that way the tryhards can simply disable them.
Edited, Aug 9th 2017 3:00pm by Lyrailis
Fact is, it seems SE can't win one way or another -- if they add quests like these, people will complain about having to look it up to know what to do, but if SE adds the usual XIV quest, then people will whine about hand-holding.
So, what they could do, is make an *option* to get rid of the quest step markers that tell you where to go, that way the tryhards can simply disable them.
Edited, Aug 9th 2017 3:00pm by Lyrailis
There were a few of those in HW too, from the brooms in Matoya's cave.
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
Lyrailis wrote:
That was was so easy, though, that they could have just put the directions in and hardly anybody'd even notice. That, and that didn't stop wikis from posting go-to guides anyways, so in the end, doing something like that was moot anyways because most players would simply look it up.
Fact is, it seems SE can't win one way or another -- if they add quests like these, people will complain about having to look it up to know what to do, but if SE adds the usual XIV quest, then people will whine about hand-holding.
So, what they could do, is make an *option* to get rid of the quest step markers that tell you where to go, that way the tryhards can simply disable them.
Edited, Aug 9th 2017 3:00pm by Lyrailis
Fact is, it seems SE can't win one way or another -- if they add quests like these, people will complain about having to look it up to know what to do, but if SE adds the usual XIV quest, then people will whine about hand-holding.
So, what they could do, is make an *option* to get rid of the quest step markers that tell you where to go, that way the tryhards can simply disable them.
Edited, Aug 9th 2017 3:00pm by Lyrailis
Well yeah theyre all easy. Just the fact that too many ppl cant seem to use their brains and cry is their hands arent held... That was t he main thing "wrong" with 1.0. As for wikis yes they existed but not in the first 5 mins so anyone like me who tries to do that stuff while new wouldnt have the option to use a wiki immediately
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Well yeah theyre all easy. Just the fact that too many ppl cant seem to use their brains and cry is their hands arent held... That was t he main thing "wrong" with 1.0. As for wikis yes they existed but not in the first 5 mins so anyone like me who tries to do that stuff while new wouldnt have the option to use a wiki immediately
You are out of your flippin' mind if you think that the quest UI or any lack thereof was the "main thing 'wrong' with 1.0".
The game ran like crap.
The game was archaic well before it got out of Beta.
The game was universally panned for many reasons, and everybody said it "wasn't ready" (and no, this was not because of the quest UI).
I played the 1.0 Beta. It was terrible in every respect. The downloader didn't even work (fun fact: I had INPUT LAG in the DOWNLOADER). I had to use Bittorrent to even download the thing in the first place.
Once in-game, the camera and movement style was very annoying, there were tons of menus ontop of tons of menus and I couldn't even understand how to even interact with the game hardly at all, and combat felt like a confused jumbled mess that made no sense whatsoever.
If you think that anything having to do with the Quests or the Quest UI was the "main" thing wrong with 1.0.... you are entirely bonkers. Sorry, but wow. That just boggles the mind.
Now, in ARR+, guess what? I spend <10% of my time doing quests, but yet I very much enjoy my time in Eorzea. I wonder why that is? Maybe because, you know, they fixed nearly everything that was wrong with 1.0 that had absolutely nothing to do with quests and the transparency of such? Combat is better, UI is loads better, the game runs better, etc etc etc etc etc.
Edited, Aug 11th 2017 11:14pm by Lyrailis
Quote:
I played the 1.0 Beta. It was terrible in every respect. The downloader didn't even work (fun fact: I had INPUT LAG in the DOWNLOADER). I had to use Bittorrent to even download the thing in the first place.
Whatever problems I'm having with the game right now, at least I no longer have to exchange multiple packets with a server in Japan just to use the stupid interface. People told me during the 1.0 beta that I was either imagining the input lag or that it was somehow acceptable for that to happen on absolutely everything.
Now if I could only stay connected for more than like 20 minutes at a time. That'd be pretty cool.
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
Callinon wrote:
Quote:
I played the 1.0 Beta. It was terrible in every respect. The downloader didn't even work (fun fact: I had INPUT LAG in the DOWNLOADER). I had to use Bittorrent to even download the thing in the first place.
Whatever problems I'm having with the game right now, at least I no longer have to exchange multiple packets with a server in Japan just to use the stupid interface. People told me during the 1.0 beta that I was either imagining the input lag or that it was somehow acceptable for that to happen on absolutely everything.
Now if I could only stay connected for more than like 20 minutes at a time. That'd be pretty cool.
Was that why there was input lag? I remember after I got the downloader, I remember the thing putting actual load on the CPU and maybe GPU too. I remember the mouse cursor moving like the whole program was doing about 10FPS, almost like the downloader itself was putting a heavy load on the CPU/GPU. Kinda like what FFXI does if you open POL and then allow it to lose focus and then try to move your mouse cursor over it... only this was doing it while it *had* focus.
Just..... the downloader. A tiny window with a couple buttons and a progress bar was putting load on my gaming computer that's how badly optimized it was. My PC at the time wasn't no slouch. I wasn't running Alienware or something, but it was an actual gaming PC that had more than the recommended setup to play the game (and I was playing several current games at the time from what I remember, had no trouble with them either).
I don't remember the downloader doing that, though it wouldn't surprise me. The client though... hoo boy. Every input went to the server before it resolved. Navigating a menu? Server has to check that one keystroke at a time. God help you if you wanted to buy something from one of the zombies in the retainer wards.
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
Callinon wrote:
I don't remember the downloader doing that, though it wouldn't surprise me. The client though... hoo boy. Every input went to the server before it resolved. Navigating a menu? Server has to check that one keystroke at a time. God help you if you wanted to buy something from one of the zombies in the retainer wards.
I assume this was over-compensation because of the RMT activity in FFXI at the time? IIRC, the Beta of 1.0 came out about the same time that XI was absolutely plagued with RMT in every corner of the world, bots here bots there, bots making life crap for everybody...
Lyrailis wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Well yeah theyre all easy. Just the fact that too many ppl cant seem to use their brains and cry is their hands arent held... That was t he main thing "wrong" with 1.0. As for wikis yes they existed but not in the first 5 mins so anyone like me who tries to do that stuff while new wouldnt have the option to use a wiki immediately
You are out of your flippin' mind if you think that the quest UI or any lack thereof was the "main thing 'wrong' with 1.0".
The game ran like crap.
The game was archaic well before it got out of Beta.
The game was universally panned for many reasons, and everybody said it "wasn't ready" (and no, this was not because of the quest UI).
I played the 1.0 Beta. It was terrible in every respect. The downloader didn't even work (fun fact: I had INPUT LAG in the DOWNLOADER). I had to use Bittorrent to even download the thing in the first place.
Once in-game, the camera and movement style was very annoying, there were tons of menus ontop of tons of menus and I couldn't even understand how to even interact with the game hardly at all, and combat felt like a confused jumbled mess that made no sense whatsoever.
If you think that anything having to do with the Quests or the Quest UI was the "main" thing wrong with 1.0.... you are entirely bonkers. Sorry, but wow. That just boggles the mind.
Now, in ARR+, guess what? I spend <10% of my time doing quests, but yet I very much enjoy my time in Eorzea. I wonder why that is? Maybe because, you know, they fixed nearly everything that was wrong with 1.0 that had absolutely nothing to do with quests and the transparency of such? Combat is better, UI is loads better, the game runs better, etc etc etc etc etc.
Edited, Aug 11th 2017 11:14pm by Lyrailis
I wasnt talkin about the quest UI I was talking about the fact that NOTHING at all in that game held your hand and that was what was "wrong" with it. Since ppl are lazy and need a game to pretty much tell em how to play, how and were to use the bathroom and instruct them on how to wipe afterward. Thus a game like 1.0 wouldnt work today and that what was "wrong" with it whereas had it launched the same time FFXI did I get the reviews woul be better and no one would complain
Lyrailis wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Well yeah theyre all easy. Just the fact that too many ppl cant seem to use their brains and cry is their hands arent held... That was t he main thing "wrong" with 1.0. As for wikis yes they existed but not in the first 5 mins so anyone like me who tries to do that stuff while new wouldnt have the option to use a wiki immediately
You are out of your flippin' mind if you think that the quest UI or any lack thereof was the "main thing 'wrong' with 1.0".
The game ran like crap.
The game was archaic well before it got out of Beta.
The game was universally panned for many reasons, and everybody said it "wasn't ready" (and no, this was not because of the quest UI).
I played the 1.0 Beta. It was terrible in every respect. The downloader didn't even work (fun fact: I had INPUT LAG in the DOWNLOADER). I had to use Bittorrent to even download the thing in the first place.
Once in-game, the camera and movement style was very annoying, there were tons of menus ontop of tons of menus and I couldn't even understand how to even interact with the game hardly at all, and combat felt like a confused jumbled mess that made no sense whatsoever.
If you think that anything having to do with the Quests or the Quest UI was the "main" thing wrong with 1.0.... you are entirely bonkers. Sorry, but wow. That just boggles the mind.
Now, in ARR+, guess what? I spend <10% of my time doing quests, but yet I very much enjoy my time in Eorzea. I wonder why that is? Maybe because, you know, they fixed nearly everything that was wrong with 1.0 that had absolutely nothing to do with quests and the transparency of such? Combat is better, UI is loads better, the game runs better, etc etc etc etc etc.
Edited, Aug 11th 2017 11:14pm by Lyrailis
I wasnt talkin about the quest UI I was talking about the fact that NOTHING at all in that game held your hand and that was what was "wrong" with it. Since ppl are lazy and need a game to pretty much tell em how to play, how and were to use the bathroom and instruct them on how to wipe afterward. Thus a game like 1.0 wouldnt work today and that what was "wrong" with it whereas had it launched the same time FFXI did I get the reviews woul be better and no one would complain
Quote:
I wasnt talkin about the quest UI I was talking about the fact that NOTHING at all in that game held your hand and that was what was "wrong" with it. Since ppl are lazy and need a game to pretty much tell em how to play, how and were to use the bathroom and instruct them on how to wipe afterward. Thus a game like 1.0 wouldnt work today and that what was "wrong" with it whereas had it launched the same time FFXI did I get the reviews woul be better and no one would complain
That's not really what was "wrong" with it (most of the complaints stemmed around an archaic game, gameplay-wise, and the fact it ran like crap, was poorly optimized, buggy, and incomplete) but even if all of these problems would have been fixed, then we'd have a situation that we'd have with FFXI -- no you don't make better players by failing to tell them basic information such as giving them a clue as to what you're supposed to be doing next.
The only thing you do is force the players to run in windowed mode and keep a browser pointed at their favorite wiki so they can look everything up.
Don't kid yourself into thinking that by refusing to tell the player what they're actually supposed to do somehow equates into an environment where you force the player to go looking for the answer, because they won't. Either the game tells them, or they will look it up on a wiki. Same freaking thing. The only difference is that a tiny amount of the playerbase will have to figure it out first and then publish said info on a wiki, but that affects <1% of the total playerbase.
Lyrailis wrote:
Either the game tells them, or they will look it up on a wiki.
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
lolgaxe wrote:
Lyrailis wrote:
Either the game tells them, or they will look it up on a wiki.
Okay, correction. They will ask friends/nearby players first, and THEN look up on wiki second.
People solo CoP to this day, you realize... and they are FORCED to look it up. They don't blindly stumble around. Back when CoP linkshells existed, sure, they asked everybody in the linkshell... "uh what do I do now?" because they want handed the information. But if they absolutely have to, then they'll look it up.
That, and Windower was a lot less popular back then. You barely heard a peep about people using it, from what I remember. Nowadays, with Built-In Windowed Mode and Windower being used by anybody who doesn't use the official windowed mode... I think a lot more people just look junk up.
My point still stands -- pretty much nobody ever "just looked for it until they found it". They either begged someone to tell them, or they looked it up. Either/or.
Yay, hit button once, get two posts. Gotta love ZAM's archaic forum system and servers from 1980.
Edited, Aug 25th 2017 9:13pm by Lyrailis
Edited, Aug 25th 2017 9:13pm by Lyrailis
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