Do you think FFXIV will bring back old school endgame?Follow

Even XI changed its HNM structure from "monster pops, first LS that claims it gets it" to "you need to build a pop set by doing BCNMs and then you can pop the boss and get a chance at winning the pop for a mega boss."

The latter allowed for a much more broad form of participation among casual shells. We finished a lot of black belts after that adjustment was made.

It comes as no surprise that the same tune is being said by the same people.

People who were not happy with 2.0's system is not happy that there were no changes, and they're enttitled to that opinion. However, there are many who did not want to boat rocked hard and they're enjoying the content that they have. We need to keep that in mind.

That said, I'm more than in support of something new. I want it as well. I think the strongest feedback Yoshida could take away is: You got a foundation, don't be afraid to experiment. What little they did new felt good. And I'd like them to make strides rather than crawling baby-steps. Then again, everything seems to run in a cycle with this game. If we're to anticipate new content, it'll likely show up mid 3.1 to mid 3.2. And we did get a new PvP mode, which, honestly I've been enjoying, save for the major problem I had with PvP before, which is the Grand Company restriction.

Possibly why I don't burn out on the Experts as much is because I spatter it with Frontlines Roulette.

D*mn. You honestly think the servers are the limiting factor in shifting the content format? The endgame isn't designed the way it is by coincidence.

The inventory space comment just makes me imagine how you seriously might think FFXI was better in this regard. Lord have mercy.

Edited, Aug 9th 2015 3:44pm by Hyanmen

Did I ever claim anything else? It's not surprising; 350+ immediately accessible inventory space would make any MMO struggle. FFXI could have only dreamed of so much inventory space.

How does inventory space concerns limit the content format is beyond me though.

People change their mind all the time and the community showing the developers what some people are thinking is never a bad thing. Many were expecting 3.0 to take the game forward in terms of content, but rather than developing, it actually went backwards to 2.0. With that you are bound to have the people who have been waiting for more once again show where they stand. Will it change the stance of the developers? Maybe it already has to some extent and maybe it never will, regardless though it does not have to change the minds of anyone, because there are a lot of people who actually like discussing the question even if it never amounts to anything.

You not liking Duo or at least what he posts is nothing new, if you don't like it stay out of his threads. Your attitude of thinking you know what is better to discuss just shows how arrogant you are and honestly it is getting a lot more tiresome than Duos threads. Actually I think I will take my own advice and just put you on ignore.

As you were the one who engaged me, perhaps you should follow your own advice and not engage in the thread. You're over-defensiveness in this situation is showing. Duo's more than capable of retorting his points and emphasizing them, and to his credit he's been progressing in that department. We even agree on the ideal, even though we heavily disagree on the realistic on our desires. I'd love to be proven wrong on this matter. In fact, I hope to be. The game needs something to feel more vibrant within the world itself. But its track record of trying to crate open-world content has been abysmal. I'm uncertain as to my perspective of what Semi-instanced will do. We seem to have a very progress-focused player base and if it's not current, it may fall flat.

I have nothing personal against Duo as an individual, which is where you seem to be making the mistake. I have a problem against the repeated behaviors of pointing out every possible flaw angle and discussing it ad nasuem - and it is ad nasuem as the discussion has not changed course in two years. So I'm calling it out. Two years have passed, the situation has not changed. There are better things to talk about - why aren't we talking about them? It's a fair question.

I can only theorize that we as a community thrive on conflict, which seems to be what your'e attempting with me. Except now that you're finding no headway you resort to the ignore function. Just a tip: I've been there. It doesn't work nearly as effectively as you may wish it would.

As far as this gem:



You'll have to cite where people have changed there mind or bite the bullet on this one, people seem to be saying the same stances they have two years ago. Sure, theoretically, people could change their mind. Also, the oceans could theoretically boil over and annihilate life as we know it on earth. If you're going to make a claim on that level, however, be sure to bring evidence to the table. Right now, the self-evident prospect is no, nothing's changed. That's part of the problem.

However, I contest that we did not go 'backwards' to 2.0, though I can see how that perspective would be had. Though I heavily disagree with the logic vein that results in it - again that perspective that anything that is not endgame progress is suddenly invalid content. Hunts have been updated, Treasure Hunts have been updated, neither existed in 2.0. PvP has a new mode that seems to have renewed its popularity, albeit likely temporary. It also assist in the daily progress climb, I cap my Esoterics at a faster rate using it, and the Glamour/PvP gear doesn't look bad.

The 'current' content has all been refined in terms of execution and loot distribution. We have a far better gear curve now then when 2.0 was out. The extremes require finer DPS checks and dodge focus. And Alexander Savage hasn't been cleared, but not because of a glitch that failed to be patched forever, but because it literally has a harder gear check than before.

All of these seem to be refinements above 2.0. However, Hio is correct, systematically, we have not added any new systems - and that is what people want. Even I want that.

However, this conversation is no different than the course of discussion that has occurred over the last two years. Over those two years, we got Hunts, Ventures, and Treasure Hunts. All of these have been updated since and are maintained. Now we have Airship ventures which, according to older interviews are not yet fully realized.

My perspective of this is that all the pieces are set for them to start releasing new content as 3.xx progresses. However, if it is not relevant to endgame, it will be dismissed the same way PvP, Hunts and Treasure Hunts have been. The vocal aspect of the player base seemed to be very narrowly focused on the idea of more progression content, and I feel as if in that field, I don't find it to be realistic to expect a completely alternative form of progression.

If anything, that perspective has changed since two years ago, when I pushed for it hard. After that long, I've come to realize that SE wants to push forward a single progression narrative in order to keep the 'current' endgame populated. The desire is still there, but the expectation of it has been quashed. The backbone of the game we have will likely not fundamentally change. You're free to disagree, but further discussion this, here, I find to be pointless.

Why?

Zam has long since stopped being a place were SE's eyes wander for feedback. The only thing anyone could find here is vindication or debate. And there are plenty of more in depth discussions that could be had here than the same-old topics.

Kind of funny really. People are arguing for new content, and here I'm arguing for new discussions.

It's also been no secret that during WotG era and on they used XI as a test bed for FFXIV. It's actually fairly common for companies to do that runs multiple MMOs.

The golden goose, right here.

Most people do, some actually stick around to whine about it and complain about all the new content. Mugs for them though because they are paying for something they clearly don’t enjoy.



The popularity of XI arguably improved after the release of 99, there was a severe influx of returning players. Although there is no denying that there was a small influx of quitters but this was also a period when XIV had been announced and people were happy to quit and wait for that. I know a few that did quit specifically just for XIV not because of the 99 content. The 75 era as you call it, was certainly the consistent era where people were not quitting (instead they would take extended breaks) if that’s what you mean. I know some people that were furious over the 99 (strangely enough these were the ones that did relics or something close) yet again I knew plenty of returning players who had previously quit.



Correction, it’s because the game isn’t built for that purpose. SE took the flaws of XI (most of them) and got rid, they didn’t want to create a monopoly system. With Fates, it’s easy for everyone to share the spoils and if you back to open world NMs/HNM what do you do about lotting? Is it reverting to XI’s ridiculous system of LS’s fighting over an NM? As I’ve mentioned before I don’t mind them doing this as an “OPTION” but what I don’t want is XI style where you had to do it for certain pieces otherwise you would miss out. Something XIV is doing right is I don’t feel like I am missing out because I play an average of 4/5 hours (okay sometimes all evening) a day instead of all day every day (I work , I have a other half etc). It’s also why I can’t do a static.
And no I didn’t enjoy camping HNMs, spending ages fighting over one mob and do not get me started on “Spawn time Window between X and XX hours”……… okay I will just sit here for a couple of hours and pray it pops…… and let me remember the sleepless nights where I would set my alarm when the pop time was coming…. Plus think about the 1% drop rate………..

SE can by all means add a few NMs like this, make the drops as minions so the rest of us who are not fussed won’t make any effort at all for them. Will they be popular? I will be surprised. There will always be that one or two players who stand around showing off their rare item but that’s not me.

Also as mentioned before we already have hunts/treasure/fates.



I don’t agree – being blunt back.

Nothing was mass populated in XI yet you talk as if it did it well? There were three areas always populated in XI (Alz/Jeuno) take your pick of the major city and <insert popular HNM> plus the popular EXP spots – that’s it. You mention the Gold Saucer as being quiet, most areas in XI were relatively quiet so what’s your point. You are comparing a game that had many years behind it and plenty of expansion packs. Not forgetting they forced you to take your time on the story – insert random wait game day/RL day and of course no DF to progress. Shall we get started on the “Gathering” get to point A with a group of people who can’t avoid agro and die…

The only thing you have correct is there isn’t really a choice of gear. It’s primarily based on iLVL. Would be nice if we had multiple choices of the type of gear we get from ESO as e.g. a healer. Perhaps I want more MP stats on the entire set instead of worrying about Det/Crit. That’s the only thing really missing. If SE added that would that fix your issue? Probably not.

You say it’s all about gear, yet I know plenty of people who spend ages earning mounts, minions and glamour items – something that has zero beneficial status at all. There are achievements too (something I enjoy working on).

I completely disagree on everything just being about Alex/Tomb spam – if that’s how you play the game I guess you are not enjoying it at all? And considering there is a weekly limit on all that too, you must get bored after one night? Because it doesn’t take long to cap the weekly drops and weekly tombs.

My average week and I class my self as an average player:
Alex drops weekly
Tombs weekly
Exp for another job to 60 (currently SMN, will be my 5th when it gets 60)
Working on a crafting job (currently Fish)
Logs
Dailies (including gold saucer)
TT (Tournament and getting cards because I still don’t have them all)

Looking at XI – my weekly usually involved in half as much as the above if I was lucky.
Events were the only thing I ever did that was enjoyable and again there were limits on how much of them we could do every week. Required gathering time and hoping for full attendance…


Although again I see the point you are making, you are not the only one that works in that kind of field (assuming IT). One of my responsibilities is user data and yes the capacity does make a difference but not that kind of a major difference.
If their servers truly crash as a result of it more data, I would severely question their technical team and their server capacity.

It’s garb – I use it all the time. We have an availability of 40-50% on our system (won’t go in to details) but we never pass to users that they can use another 20-30%% before I would raise an eye brow. Instead we push to keep users from maxing out their data by keeping it minimal. We could easily increase capacity of that server with a bit of funding, as for data transmitted assuming their servers would be on a better networking than ours – this wouldn’t be an issue.

The fact they allow additional retainers for a cost says it all. As we keep comparing XI, they added a lot more as time went by because the demand was high. Even though they constantly told us it wasn’t easy due to “Server complications”……

If you really are from the “field” you wouldn’t give them the benefit of the doubt because you would have used similar words your self. The average user is clueless (sad but true).

This is the main reason I say I give them the benefit of the doubt purely because I know they more than likely cut so many corners in ARR's production, so I seriously don't doubt the server architecture and team are just so..thrown together it really can't handle much. Even in recent interviews they mentioned having to essentially copy over all of your character and item data for the content (duty finder) servers. The fact they always mention "BUY MORE RETAINERS" is why I said its more than likely a cash grab, but it is SE, their programming and management is always odd.

My main gripe and why I find XI built in a better fashion is the Porter Mog system, something basic yet can manage our inventories in such a better fashion in FFXIV, but they mention the game writes every 15 seconds (XIV)..



This. This is why I said XIV is largely 5 years old, 2 years in terms of ARR with an expansion, yet despite that 2 years+expansion, I don't feel like I have much of anything to do because I actually progressed my character. Even if I were to go back to 2.x content...there's no point because the game ITSELF tells you to essentially go away and focus on HW..which content wise, is a main storyline, Alexander Normal, Ravana Ex, Bismarck Ex and Alexander Savage. Alexander Normal and Bismarck Ex honestly has no reason to exist in the grand scheme of things given progression, but people wanted a story mode which is what's going to hurt XIV's content for a long time to come because SE won't (or can't) release the content at the same time, so you're going to have weekly lockout (new story mode version), then a month later you'll have (weekly lock savage version with a higher ilvl) then you'll have the next alliance based content that is inferior in terms of progression ilvl come after thus taking a step backwards. The format is messy even in comparison to other MMOs like WoW and GW2. So while the content exist...XIV's progression is a gear treadmill, Bismarck's gear is inferior to Ravana's and even upgraded Law gear.

Esoterics is now out and anyone can get it even without raiding..bam, you invalidated the need to ever get Ravana (i190) weapons. So as said, content exists, but vertical progression makes it feels like..there's not much..so the little that does exist you get burned and eventually bored as hell. In XI, using the same time frame, I had plenty to do even with cooldowns or JP day waits.

Edited, Aug 13th 2015 7:08am by Theonehio

Edited, Aug 13th 2015 7:11am by Theonehio

And treasure hunts, and pvp, and the gold saucer, and larger casual raids, and the relic upgrade line, and flying, and expanding the hunt to include lower levels, and new jobs with new mechanics and playstyles, and an entirely new progression system for crafters and gatherers.

We see what we want to see.

FFXI 3.0 equivalent would be CoP. If you compare XI to XIV side by side in their respective timelines XI still had more to do. Again, it comes down to more of the game being viable content. It seems like the philosophy has shifted away from 'what can we add to this game that players will enjoy' to 'how can we keep people busy for the next x months'.