What's the rotation I should be using?
I get the whole Fire and Ice bits. But what about Thunder and Thunder II?
I'm lvl31 and my max MP is 1154 if that helps.
Edited, Apr 8th 2015 8:52am by TwilightSkye
Edited, Apr 8th 2015 8:52am by TwilightSkye
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On trash fights, I don't bother with Thunder. You could possibly Swiftcast + Thunder if it's a bigger trash mob, but most things die too fast for it to be worthwhile.
For boss fights, use the highest Thunder you have and keep it up. You eventually unlock Thunder III. At some point you get the trait Thundercloud, which will occasionally let you insta-cast Thunder again at double damage (even more if you crit it) with half the damage coming at the beginning and the rest via normal DoT.
You'll also eventually get Firestarter, which is the same thing for Fire III.
Generally, I cast Fire I on mobs in groups of less than 3, and Fire II on groups of 3 or more, then switch to Blizzard I (later III) to refill MP.
Fire II is not efficient on only 1 or 2 mobs.
Edited, Apr 8th 2015 9:20am by Catwho
For boss fights, use the highest Thunder you have and keep it up. You eventually unlock Thunder III. At some point you get the trait Thundercloud, which will occasionally let you insta-cast Thunder again at double damage (even more if you crit it) with half the damage coming at the beginning and the rest via normal DoT.
You'll also eventually get Firestarter, which is the same thing for Fire III.
Generally, I cast Fire I on mobs in groups of less than 3, and Fire II on groups of 3 or more, then switch to Blizzard I (later III) to refill MP.
Fire II is not efficient on only 1 or 2 mobs.
Edited, Apr 8th 2015 9:20am by Catwho
I'm not going to do the math for you on exactly how many Fires you want, but in general here's the BLM rotation:
Before Fire3:
Thunder
Fire until you can't Fire no mores
Transpose
Thunder
Wait for Umbral Ice to fall off
Repeat
After Fire3 but before Blizzard3:
Thunder
Fire3
Fire until no more Fire will come
Transpose
Thunder2
Wait for MP
Fire3
Back to Fire'ing
After Blizzard3:
Open with highest Thunder
Fire3
Fire until sub-500mp
Blizzard3
Thunder
Blizzard
If you have a Firestarter proc hanging: Transpose at full mp
Fire3
Back to Fire
Use Thundercloud procs when they pop up. If you get a series of them, try to get Thunder3s rolling on multiple targets for great justice. Use Firestarter procs when they pop up unless they pop up during your Blizzard3 cast, then hold them until your mp is full again and Transpose back into your fire phase before using Fire3.
EDIT: More on Thunders since I just noticed you asked about that specifically:
There are entire workshops and great symposia on exactly when to use each Thunder tier during your ice phases, but let me break it down like this:
When you're going to be able to cast two spells during your ice phase (only applies post Blizzard3) you want Thunder1 and a Blizzard1. If you're only going to be able to cast one spell you want Thunder2. Determining which one is which is going to be a matter of experience with each individual fight.
And as Catwho said, yes... Fire2 requires a minimum of 3 targets for it to be worthwhile. If you're AoE'ing, don't bother with Thunders. Don't bother with Blizzard2 at all unless you seriously need to Bind things.
Edited, Apr 8th 2015 8:29am by Callinon
Before Fire3:
Thunder
Fire until you can't Fire no mores
Transpose
Thunder
Wait for Umbral Ice to fall off
Repeat
After Fire3 but before Blizzard3:
Thunder
Fire3
Fire until no more Fire will come
Transpose
Thunder2
Wait for MP
Fire3
Back to Fire'ing
After Blizzard3:
Open with highest Thunder
Fire3
Fire until sub-500mp
Blizzard3
Thunder
Blizzard
If you have a Firestarter proc hanging: Transpose at full mp
Fire3
Back to Fire
Use Thundercloud procs when they pop up. If you get a series of them, try to get Thunder3s rolling on multiple targets for great justice. Use Firestarter procs when they pop up unless they pop up during your Blizzard3 cast, then hold them until your mp is full again and Transpose back into your fire phase before using Fire3.
EDIT: More on Thunders since I just noticed you asked about that specifically:
There are entire workshops and great symposia on exactly when to use each Thunder tier during your ice phases, but let me break it down like this:
When you're going to be able to cast two spells during your ice phase (only applies post Blizzard3) you want Thunder1 and a Blizzard1. If you're only going to be able to cast one spell you want Thunder2. Determining which one is which is going to be a matter of experience with each individual fight.
And as Catwho said, yes... Fire2 requires a minimum of 3 targets for it to be worthwhile. If you're AoE'ing, don't bother with Thunders. Don't bother with Blizzard2 at all unless you seriously need to Bind things.
Edited, Apr 8th 2015 8:29am by Callinon
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
I would be surprised if you get much of an opportunity to to use Fire 2 efficiently before 50. Unless the tank is trying to hold hate against AoE damage (which isn't even a given when doing expert roulette dungeons), whatever extra DPS you might get on a group of 3 or 4 mobs could be lost when you pull hate and have your casting interrupted.
I wouldn't even worry about Fire 2 in a rotation until level 50.
I wouldn't even worry about Fire 2 in a rotation until level 50.
svlyons wrote:
I would be surprised if you get much of an opportunity to to use Fire 2 efficiently before 50. Unless the tank is trying to hold hate against AoE damage (which isn't even a given when doing expert roulette dungeons), whatever extra DPS you might get on a group of 3 or 4 mobs could be lost when you pull hate and have your casting interrupted.
I wouldn't even worry about Fire 2 in a rotation until level 50.
I wouldn't even worry about Fire 2 in a rotation until level 50.
That's a fair point. Most tanks don't even really have the tools they need to deal with a blm going ham on aoe before about 40 or 45 anyway (PLD doesn't get Circle of Scorn until 50).
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
Archmage Callinon wrote:
svlyons wrote:
I would be surprised if you get much of an opportunity to to use Fire 2 efficiently before 50. Unless the tank is trying to hold hate against AoE damage (which isn't even a given when doing expert roulette dungeons), whatever extra DPS you might get on a group of 3 or 4 mobs could be lost when you pull hate and have your casting interrupted.
I wouldn't even worry about Fire 2 in a rotation until level 50.
I wouldn't even worry about Fire 2 in a rotation until level 50.
That's a fair point. Most tanks don't even really have the tools they need to deal with a blm going ham on aoe before about 40 or 45 anyway (PLD doesn't get Circle of Scorn until 50).
Since the boost to flash it's a lot easier as long as the THM/BLM isn't trying to AoE before you even get settled with the pull. WAR has the easiest time so Flash+OP definitely can hold the hate, PLD just has to combo the monsters individually after their flashing to hold it. So it is possible but the THM/BLM has to work with the tank that early.
For both bard and black mage on pulls I know I'll be AOEing on - I pop my offensive buffs while the tank is doing his gathering, and don't start AOEing until everything is clearly in the red.
Also, Quelling Strikes helps a ton!
But yes, Fire II is really only useful for large clusters of mobs. I'm thinking stuff like Stone Vigil HM where there are 6 puks and a big dragon on one pull.
Also, Quelling Strikes helps a ton!
But yes, Fire II is really only useful for large clusters of mobs. I'm thinking stuff like Stone Vigil HM where there are 6 puks and a big dragon on one pull.
Going by what everyone has said and after a bit of practicing on the dummy:
Thunder → Fire → Fire → Fire → Fire → Fire ► Transpose → Thunder ► (wait of UI to wear off: Am I clear on this? That's 4-5 seconds standing there doing nothing) → Fire → Fire → Fire → Fire → Fire → Fire → Fire ► Transpose → Thunder (repeat)
This can change depending on certain variables of course, like if I need to manually interrupt a cast to prevent myself from attacking the wrong target, etc. And I could end up having to cast a thunder spell mid rotation.
Edited, Apr 8th 2015 2:24pm by TwilightSkye
Thunder → Fire → Fire → Fire → Fire → Fire ► Transpose → Thunder ► (wait of UI to wear off: Am I clear on this? That's 4-5 seconds standing there doing nothing) → Fire → Fire → Fire → Fire → Fire → Fire → Fire ► Transpose → Thunder (repeat)
This can change depending on certain variables of course, like if I need to manually interrupt a cast to prevent myself from attacking the wrong target, etc. And I could end up having to cast a thunder spell mid rotation.
Edited, Apr 8th 2015 2:24pm by TwilightSkye
Quote:
(wait of UI to wear off: Am I clear on this? That's 4-5 seconds standing there doing nothing)
Toss in a Scathe or something just so you don't feel like you aren't accomplishing things. But yes, it's better to wait for Umbral Ice to wear off on its own rather than waiting on Transpose to come off cooldown. This all becomes meaningless once Fire3 is a thing.
If you find yourself having to change your mind quickly, the rule is not to cast a Thunder spell during your fire phase. It's ok for Thunder to wear off, it's not ok to use that fire phase mp on things that are not fire.
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
Archmage Callinon wrote:
Quote:
(wait of UI to wear off: Am I clear on this? That's 4-5 seconds standing there doing nothing)
Toss in a Scathe or something just so you don't feel like you aren't accomplishing things. But yes, it's better to wait for Umbral Ice to wear off on its own rather than waiting on Transpose to come off cooldown. This all becomes meaningless once Fire3 is a thing.
Or instead of Scathe, he could cast Blizzard. I usually cast Fire 1 just to force remove Umbral Ice.
I don't imagine that there's a huge difference between any of those options. And since it's a temporary rotation that's going to change multiple times leading up to lvl 50, trying to optimize the rotation to this degree might be excessive.
Thanks for all the information!
You'll probably find once you have Thunder 3 that its casting time is too long to properly squeeze it in when you have Umbral Ice 3 up (that is, you've just exhausted your MP for Fires, and you've just casted Blizzard 3 to start restoring your MP). It'll take two ticks for it to restore your MP back to full, but you'll usually need to wait for the first tick just to be able to start casting Thunder 3... and you'll get your second tick before it finishes, leaving you with less than full MP for shifting back to Astral Fire (unless you wait for a 3rd tick, which isn't generally recommended).
You have at least a couple of ways around this:
1) Swiftcast the Thunder 3 (or if Thundercloud has gotten a proc, obviously that works too). Just note that at 50, you'll probably want to use Swiftcast for Flare, and instead...
2) Cast Thunder 2 at this point instead of Thunder 3; if you start casting immediately as you get your first tick it should fire just before you get your second one. Obviously, if you do this, you'll still want to keep Thunder 3 handy for Thundercloud procs.
You have at least a couple of ways around this:
1) Swiftcast the Thunder 3 (or if Thundercloud has gotten a proc, obviously that works too). Just note that at 50, you'll probably want to use Swiftcast for Flare, and instead...
2) Cast Thunder 2 at this point instead of Thunder 3; if you start casting immediately as you get your first tick it should fire just before you get your second one. Obviously, if you do this, you'll still want to keep Thunder 3 handy for Thundercloud procs.
Quote:
Or instead of Scathe, he could cast Blizzard. I usually cast Fire 1 just to force remove Umbral Ice.
My preference before fire3 is to wait for Umbral Ice to fall off on its own. Casting additional blizzards would f with that. I also don't like casting fire to get out of ice phase as it's a waste of mp to do so and does negligible damage because of Umbral Ice.
Edited, Apr 8th 2015 9:47pm by Callinon
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
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