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Time to give Trump Presidency it's own Thread.Follow

#977 Feb 15 2018 at 8:30 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Notice how what I said is more similar to what actually said than what you said?
I notice how you ignored like 90% of the actual words and just focused on the snippet that justified your rhetoric.
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#978 Feb 15 2018 at 7:20 PM Rating: Decent
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gbaji wrote:
angrymnk wrote:
And you know what the funny thing is? I want Trump to succeed in damaging FISA ( if only a little bit - everyone knows at this point it is not going anywhere; ****, just the other day I heard prosecutor defending Guantanamo as a great way to gather intelligence so we are back to that level of idiocy ).


I don't think that this is directly about FISA itself. The process is flawed, but it's probably the best one we could use, given the nature of the issue at hand. The problem is that if false information is fed to the judges in the FISA court, they're going to approve taps that they should not. That's really no different than a police investigation providing false evidence to a judge to get a warrant. That happens too. And the failing isn't the judge, but the investigators not being diligent in their fact finding (or sometimes outright faking evidence to get a warrant, which is straight up abuse of power).

When these things happen, the correct course of action is to investigate those who generated the false evidence, find out who was involved, and then apply appropriate punishment for those actions. And this is *exactly* what folks on the Right want to see happen. Again, this is not specifically about Trump. This sort of thing could have been used against anyone. I would hope that we would all like to see this sort of abuse rooted out and eliminated. The last thing we should be doing is sitting around saying "Well, I don't like the guy they used this on, so I guess it's ok". No, it's not. Because if this sort of thing is allowed to stand unpunished, it'll happen again. And in all likelihood it wont be someone you dislike who will be the next target.

Again. it's not about Trump. We should all expect that the same rules of law and protection against abuse of power, apply to all of us, not just the people we like.


*shrug* Secret courts making secret decisions about super duper secret things are not being honest? Color me aghast with shock and disbelief at the audacity of the spook society to only let dirty civilian judges see only what they think they need to know. It is not like Clapper lied with impunity, right?. Is there some sort of magic difference between congress and secret court?

Frankly, if there is one good thing about Trump, it is that he happened to shine light on this particular light averse power center.
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#979 Feb 15 2018 at 7:22 PM Rating: Good
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Cross Thread Shenanigans?

*shrug*

Probably CTS.
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#980 Feb 15 2018 at 10:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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And there's only two active threads.

Maybe we should have them merged into one giant monstrosity.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#981 Feb 16 2018 at 7:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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don't cross the streams!! :)
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#982 Feb 16 2018 at 8:56 AM Rating: Good
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But crossing the streams fixed all the problems.
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#983 Feb 16 2018 at 10:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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Let's have one thread with everything in =4 and then a separate thread about those fucking dead Albanians or whoever.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#984 Feb 16 2018 at 10:32 AM Rating: Good
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I think he's mad about dead albino's. I'm not sure, his writing is really terrible.
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Dandruffshampoo wrote:
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Annabella, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
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#985 Feb 16 2018 at 11:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Let's have one thread with everything in =4 and then a separate thread about those fucking dead Albanians or whoever.
Instead of just replying we could open up a new thread for each response. It might take a while to get used to the layout, but we could probably clear the front page in a few days.
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#986 Mar 01 2018 at 12:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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New York Times wrote:
The Senate Intelligence Committee has concluded that Republicans on the House Intelligence Committee were behind the leak of private text messages between the Senate panel’s top Democrat and a Russian-connected lawyer, according to two congressional officials briefed on the matter.

Senator Richard M. Burr of North Carolina, the committee’s Republican chairman, and Senator Mark Warner of Virginia, the top Democrat, were so perturbed by the leak that they demanded a rare meeting with Speaker Paul D. Ryan last month to inform him of their findings. They used the meeting with Mr. Ryan to raise broader concerns about the direction of the House Intelligence Committee under its chairman, Representative Devin Nunes of California, the officials said.

If anyone still thinks the House investigation is legitimate (not just this but also Nunes' leaks of classified info, various other attacks, joke "memo", etc), they're either blindly partisan or just smoking veterinary pharmaceuticals. That's the only two options.

Edited, Mar 1st 2018 12:56pm by Jophiel
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#987 Mar 01 2018 at 2:16 PM Rating: Good
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#988 Mar 01 2018 at 2:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
If anyone still thinks the House investigation is legitimate (not just this but also Nunes' leaks of classified info, various other attacks, joke "memo", etc), they're either blindly partisan or just smoking veterinary pharmaceuticals. That's the only two options
What about those of us that are just really cynical?

Them finding evidence of corruption and unethical behavior is about as surprising to me as walking into a men's restroom and finding a urinal. Yes, true, they're not in every men's restroom, but you shouldn't be acting all excited to everyone when you see one there. Finding evidence of corruption among politicians and other higher-ups in Washington sounds about as equally impressive of a feat.

Edited, Mar 1st 2018 12:55pm by someproteinguy
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#989 Mar 01 2018 at 5:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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someproteinguy wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
If anyone still thinks the House investigation is legitimate (not just this but also Nunes' leaks of classified info, various other attacks, joke "memo", etc), they're either blindly partisan or just smoking veterinary pharmaceuticals. That's the only two options
What about those of us that are just really cynical?

Then I'd assume you're skeptical of its legitimacy by default.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#990 Mar 01 2018 at 9:31 PM Rating: Decent
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angrymnk wrote:
gbaji wrote:
The process is flawed, but it's probably the best one we could use, given the nature of the issue at hand.


*shrug* Secret courts making secret decisions about super duper secret things are not being honest? Color me aghast with shock and disbelief at the audacity of the spook society to only let dirty civilian judges see only what they think they need to know.


The alternative which existed prior to the creation of this "secret court", was to just trust the intelligence agencies to only spy on people for legitimate national security reasons. Again, it's not perfect, but it's far far better than what we had before. And given the fact that this involves decisions about surveillance which is, by its nature, secret, means that you can't exactly have open public discussion.

There has to be some kind of balance between the need for secrecy and the need to ensure that our national security apparatus is not used in abusive ways. The basic concept of the FISA court is not bad. And in this case, as I said in my previous post, the failing was not with the court itself, but with what appears to be deliberately misleading if not just outright incorrect information fed to it. Presenting information obtained from the Steele dossier, without mentioning that it was generated via opposition research by the Clinton Campaign and the DNC would be bad enough. Providing a News source (yahoo news) as corroborating evidence to that contained within the Steele dossier, without mentioning that the Yahoo News story was, in fact, the result of portions of the same dossier provided to them by Steele himself, just doubles down on the problem.

Had the FBI done just a bit of digging, they would have discovered this and discounted Steele as a legitimate source. In fact, they did finally do this, but only after yet another media outlet (Mother Jones) wrote an article including data they got from Steele on the same subject (spreading the same information to multiple media outlets does not make them each count as different sources btw, and is precisely why the FBI disallows sources who shop their information to media outlets). This clearly invalidated the original source and the secondary source (since they were really the same single source). Um... But despite this, the FBI continued to rubber stamp renewals of the same FISA warrant surveillance for another year.


It's hard to read about this stuff and not come to the conclusion that there were some folks in the FBI who had clearly "picked sides". The contrast between the lackluster pursuit of information in the Clinton investigation and the nearly rabid pursuit of anything and everything anywhere near the orbit of Trump is just hard to ignore. At the end of the day, if you have an organization like the FBI engaged in this sort of partisan operation, you're going to have problems. I'm not sure what other safeguards we could have had in place to prevent this. Normally, you'd expect someone at the agency would have blown the whistle, but given that it's beginning to look like the top level of the DoJ was on board with all of this as well, it may very well have been that people just kept their heads down because they didn't want to get "in trouble". Given that the broad assumption was that Clinton would win the election, this is not really that surprising. Who do you blow the whistle to? When the party in charge is the same as the party behind the folks doing all of this, and is likely to be the party in power in 6 months or so when the media winds die down and it comes to review time? No one. You pretend you don't see anything and keep your head down. Sad, but true.

Edited, Mar 1st 2018 7:43pm by gbaji
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#991 Mar 01 2018 at 9:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
New York Times wrote:
The Senate Intelligence Committee has concluded that Republicans on the House Intelligence Committee were behind the leak of private text messages between the Senate panel’s top Democrat and a Russian-connected lawyer, according to two congressional officials briefed on the matter.

Senator Richard M. Burr of North Carolina, the committee’s Republican chairman, and Senator Mark Warner of Virginia, the top Democrat, were so perturbed by the leak that they demanded a rare meeting with Speaker Paul D. Ryan last month to inform him of their findings. They used the meeting with Mr. Ryan to raise broader concerns about the direction of the House Intelligence Committee under its chairman, Representative Devin Nunes of California, the officials said.

If anyone still thinks the House investigation is legitimate (not just this but also Nunes' leaks of classified info, various other attacks, joke "memo", etc), they're either blindly partisan or just smoking veterinary pharmaceuticals. That's the only two options.


Or, maybe don't just rely on one source

Quote:
Burr later denied the Times report, telling a CNN reporter that his panel had not concluded that House Republicans were behind the leak. He also denied raising concerns about Nunes during his meeting with Ryan.


Who to believe? "two congressional officials briefed on the matter" (who are unnamed in the Time's article)? Or the named reporter with direct quotes from the Senator himself? Hmmm...


Hey. I'm not saying that leaks don't fly akimbo in scenarios like this, but let's not pretend this is a one-sided thing, and let's not point fingers and pretend to be shocked and outraged, especially when the "facts" aren't as clear as they seem.
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#992 Mar 02 2018 at 12:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Or, maybe don't just rely on one source

Burr was ass-covering. Marks on the leaked copies link them to the House investigation.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#993 Mar 02 2018 at 1:00 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Or, maybe don't just rely on one source.
Trust a blog owned by the Moonies? Seriously????Smiley: lolSmiley: laughSmiley: rolleyesSmiley: dubiousSmiley: oyvey
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#994 Mar 02 2018 at 8:21 AM Rating: Good
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Morons can't tell the difference between actual news and blogs. No wonder they believe "fake news" is a good argument.
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#995 Mar 02 2018 at 8:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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The Hill is owned by News Communications Inc, founded in 1986 (and pretty much just publishes The Hill) which is a separate company from News World Communications, founded in 1976 by Sun Myung Moon.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#996 Mar 02 2018 at 8:58 AM Rating: Good
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My mistake, but I stand by what I said.
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George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#997 Mar 02 2018 at 9:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
If anyone still thinks the House investigation is legitimate (not just this but also Nunes' leaks of classified info, various other attacks, joke "memo", etc), they're either blindly partisan or just smoking veterinary pharmaceuticals. That's the only two options
What about those of us that are just really cynical?

Then I'd assume you're skeptical of its legitimacy by default.
Smiley: blush You got me...
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#998 Mar 03 2018 at 11:42 PM Rating: Good
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Should we rename the thread to "Time to give Trump President-for-Life-ncy it's own Thread"?
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#999 Mar 04 2018 at 4:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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Heh, if Obama said that Gbaji would have literally shit his pants. Smiley: laugh
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Belkira wrote:
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#1000 Mar 04 2018 at 4:23 PM Rating: Good
GBATE!! Never saw it coming
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Jophiel wrote:
Heh, if Obama said that Gbaji would have literally shit his pants. Smiley: laugh
...and crowed about how he was right all along.

But when it's his boy...well, it's no big deal.
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#1001 Mar 04 2018 at 6:26 PM Rating: Decent
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trump also said "take the guns first and then due process" which, other than contradicting due process, is what the right always claimed Obama would, eventually, theoretically, do.

Edited, Mar 4th 2018 7:32pm by Debalic
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